Traveller-digest      Wednesday, June 11 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 1420



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1416
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1416
Re: Web pages updated.
RE Andy E-mail Address
Allow me to introduce myself
Re: Scenario: Generation-Ship
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1416
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1416
Re: Life System
Re: Life Events System
Re:Generation Ship
Re: Scenario: Generation-Ship
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1415
Starports & Tech Levels
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1416
Re: Scenario: Generation-Ship
Re: Star ship design question
Re: Hydrogen Bubbles
Re: High Tech offenders
Re: Scenario: Generation-Ship
Re: Jump troops and acceleration

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:58:45 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1416

At 06:18 PM 6/10/97 -0400, you wrote:

>No, not trade codes. Here's an example from the book:
>
>...........E654755-6  Ag         502 (PBG)   F4 V
>...........B642422-7  Po Lopop   702         M7 V1
>
>It's the last part, the "F4 V" and "M7 V1" I don't get.

Stellar codes.. the first world orbits a type F4 Main sequence star..
bigger and hotter than our sun.  The second orbits a much smaller, colder
star (though the "VI" needs to be changed, we don't use that anymore, IIRC.)

- --
+------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry         dberry@hooked.net   |
| Gearhead & Planetologist, Traveller since 1977 |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|************************************************|
|    "Traveller assumes a remote centralized     |
|   government (referred to in this volume as    |
|    the Imperium)...                            |
|       -Introduction, Book 4: Mercenary (1978)  |
+------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:12:22 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1416

At 06:18 pm 06/10/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>   Sorry I can't answer your first question; I don't have a copy of PE
>>   on me right now.  Are they trade codes? (Ni=non-industrial,
>>   Ic=ice-capped, etc.)
>
>No, not trade codes. Here's an example from the book:
>
>...........E654755-6  Ag         502 (PBG)   F4 V
>...........B642422-7  Po Lopop   702         M7 V1
>
>It's the last part, the "F4 V" and "M7 V1" I don't get.

	Spectral Class F4, size V primary star?
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:02:55 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Web pages updated.

At 04:15 PM 6/10/97 -0400, Pete wrote:

I wrote:
>>I've just finished a load of work on my web pages, and would like some feed
>>back.  Please wander by, the URL is in my .sig, and let me know what you
>>think.

>Pretty neat.  Why isn't the picture of "The Beast" inline?

Because I forgot?  (Fritz! take notes!)

>>I especially need feedback from folks who aren't using Netscape.

>Oh, I am using netscape.

According to Pagecount, most of the folks who visit my sites use Netscape..
over 50 NS hits, one from MSIE.  Make of that what you will.

>That first image is great.  Is it a concept drawing for a new airport
>terminal somewhere or what?

Denver International Airport with a sunburst pasted over the United
Airlines logo.  Amazing what you can find on the web...

- --
+------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry         dberry@hooked.net   |
| Gearhead & Planetologist, Traveller since 1977 |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|************************************************|
|    "Traveller assumes a remote centralized     |
|   government (referred to in this volume as    |
|    the Imperium)...                            |
|       -Introduction, Book 4: Mercenary (1978)  |
+------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:21:58 +1000
From: shane.dowling@deetya.gov.au
Subject: RE Andy E-mail Address

Sorry about the waste of bans width, but Andy's new E-mail address is
andl@bhars592.europe.nortel.com

Shane

I came I saw I fished

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:20:35 -0600
From: lguatney@carbon.cudenver.edu (Leroy William Lu Guatney)
Subject: Allow me to introduce myself

Hi you all,

   I am a newbie to this list (finally), though in the past, I have asked
friends to post things here.  I am finally getting on here hoping I can
manage the extra bandwidth via the digest.  Some of you may know me from
the TNE-pocket mailing list, or the History of the Imperium Working Group
(HIWG) mailing list, or even from my Traveller WWW pages (a Webring site).

   I am not a newbie to Traveller, having been in from the beginning in
1977.  Some of you may know me from articles I did in JTAS #22/#24 and
the help I gave to the Atlas of the Imperium (in the credits there).  I
am also in the credits of MegaTraveller and TNE.  I plan to add T4 to that
list soon!

   My hobbies (outside of this game) are computers and astronomy.  I am
graduating next Spring with a Bachellor's of Science in Computer Science
and Engineering (being a Physics major dropout when the company I worked
for then, made me a programmer before there was such a thing as a C.S.
degree), and will most likely start on my Master's degree in, if not in an
outright C.S. field, a C.S. related field in some Astronomy/Astrophysics/
Space Science (NASA) application.

   I have everything worth having that has been published for this game,
and some things not worth having. :)  I have met most of the early majors
(Marc, Loren, J.Andrew) of the game and could kick myself in the rear for
not having pursued the possibility of taking the product line of Traveller
over when GDW was looking (and later found DGP).  I told Marc that my
friends and I had formed a company, but we were arguing over the name.
I quit the partnership of that company to keep my friends, and alas missed
the opportunity to do MT.  But, we did keep playing Traveller, so that was
good.

  I've heard you all are long on opinion around here, so I look forward
to gathering some of that in the near future.  Of course, I have some
opinions myself, and am not shy about airing them.  From what I hear, I'll
fit in nicely. :)

  My web pages are at:
     http://ouray.cudenver.edu/~lwlguatn

  To save space and time, saying things here, I plan to put up a tml-devoted
page so that I can do things like, "refer to WWW reason #n here."  I think
I like that idea, borrowing from one of the only two radio talk show hosts
I like to listen to.  He is fond of telling his callers that they are
repeating themselves and if they have nothing new to say, don't say it.  It
seems highly applicable to the Internet as well. :)

  My name is Leroy W.L. Guatney (the extra L. was added when I married my
lovely wife, so some of the credits have only the W.) and in the late summer
of 1994 (has it really been that long?), I spent an hour in a Bloomington
Denny's with Marc going over old times, and briefing him on the state of
the game.  Sadly, I was right, but at least there wasn't a long night
between T3 and T4. :)  I gave him my heartfelt thanks for having invented
the game in the first place, and he had no idea how many hours of enjoyment
it had given me.

  Look for my involvement with T4 as well as TML in the future.  Don't look
for me to be bashing it--as that oft-used saying goes, "S--t happens."  We
often loose site of the fact that gaming has evolved quite a bit since we
first got those black books, and sometimes we judge today in a void of proper
comparisons.  No, I'm not an apologist--just a realist.  When friends and I
were waiting for the first Space Shuttle to liftoff, our response to reports
of graft in NASA were, "I don't care how much graft it is going to take to
get our Space Shuttle on orbit."


Leroy
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                        Science Adventure
                                                        in the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:04:32 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Scenario: Generation-Ship

At 07:25 AM 6/10/97 EST, you wrote:
>Hi folks,
>yesterday during a perticularly boring lecture, i hit upon a new idea 
>for a scenario: Travel onboard a GenerationVessel, a whole new take 
>on the "limited space" campaigns. 

A few of us have played with "Metamorphosis Traveller" with credit due to
Jim Ward and his "Metamorphosis Alpha"...  Not only limited space - limited
awareness of its limitedness!


- ---------------
Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 97 22:38:15 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1416

On 1997-06-10 16:18 thus spake Peter or Kevin Miller:

>>   Sorry I can't answer your first question; I don't have a copy of PE
>>   on me right now.  Are they trade codes? (Ni=non-industrial,
>>   Ic=ice-capped, etc.)
>
>No, not trade codes. Here's an example from the book:
>
>...........E654755-6  Ag         502 (PBG)   F4 V
>...........B642422-7  Po Lopop   702         M7 V1
>
>It's the last part, the "F4 V" and "M7 V1" I don't get.

The F4 V and M7 VI are stellar classification codes.

SD Mooney asked how the codes worked just four days ago. At the risk of 
repeating myself... aw, heck, I'll just repeat myself:

<regurgitate ON>

Stars are classified by Spectral Type and Luminosity Class.

The sequence of Spectral Type classifications, from hottest to coldest is 
OBAFGKM (with RNS being special types).

The types are subdivided by a digit 0-9 following the letter code.

Following the Spectral Type are Roman numerals denoting the Luminosity 
Class of the star. Ia and Ib are supergiants, II are bright giants, III 
giants, IV Subgiants, V are main sequence stars (dwarfs) like our sun, VI 
are subdwarfs and VII (or D) are white dwarfs.

<regurgitate OFF>

So in the examples you cite, "F4 V" is a main sequence star, hotter than 
our sun (which is a G2 V, iirc). "M7 VI" is a red subdwarf in the later 
stages of its life, quite cold.

If there's more than one stellar code on the same line, then the system 
is a binary, or trinary system.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:38:56 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1416

Peter or Kevin Miller wrote:
> 
> >   Sorry I can't answer your first question; I don't have a copy of PE
> >   on me right now.  Are they trade codes? (Ni=non-industrial,
> >   Ic=ice-capped, etc.)
> 
> No, not trade codes. Here's an example from the book:
> 
> ...........E654755-6  Ag         502 (PBG)   F4 V
> ...........B642422-7  Po Lopop   702         M7 V1
> 
> It's the last part, the "F4 V" and "M7 V1" I don't get.

These are the type and size of the primary star. You have a
F4-V as the star for the first world and a M7-VI as the second
world's star.
- -- 
Erwin Fritz
Unix/NT/LAN Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 97 23:29:28 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Life System

On 06/10/97 at 07:31 AM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
said:

> Sounds a LOT like the lifepaths section of Cyberpunk 2020.

> At first glance I like it, though I'd want to run through it a couple
> of times to see what's generated.

> One word of warning...it is sometimes possible to delinineate your
> character _too_ much, right, Eris? ;-)

Says Bruce as his character tries to wiggle out of the "Detain for
Mental Observation" his character's background stuck him with before the
game even started! Tim might agree with you too...just wait until you
find out what *his* character's background is. ;->  We've got a Section
Eight and a Section Four (at least I think it's Four). 

Glenn, I saved and printed your chargen stuff. Good job.

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:46:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: pawn@CAM.ORG (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Life Events System

Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> says,
>
>Sounds a LOT like the lifepaths section of Cyberpunk 2020.

I've read that system, variants of which appear in a number of R. Talsorian
games. I was intrigued by the concept, but I thought their method was poor.
Also, their system is intentionally a "soap-opera" conflict generator -
while my system is only as soap-operatic as you want it to be. The Life
Events system can be highly realistic if that's what you're looking for -
at least I hope it has that potential.

>At first glance I like it, though I'd want to run through it a couple of
>times to see what's generated.

Do let me know if you find it useful. Suggestions for improvements are invited.

It was awfully early in the morning when I posted the system - which is why
I forgot to give my post a proper Subject line. I also mention that there
are supposed to be "a few" extra tables after the Events tables, but in the
end I only put in one (the "Other" table). I was thinking of adding more
tables, but opted for simplicity in midstream (in other words, I got tired
and went to bed).

A few words of explanation might also be in order, regarding some of the
Events. Under "Health", you'll find "get a minor body modification" - this
is supposed to mean something like a tattoo, a piercing, a scarrification
ritual, a nose job or other cosmetic surgery, small implanted device -
whatever fits within the world's Tech Level and culture. A "major body
modification" might be anything from a whole-body tattoo, complete skin
change, sex change, radical regenerative treatment, extra arms, major
implant or prosthetic - but again, it has to be within the world's Tech
Level (unless the PC can afford an off-planet biomod junket).

I put this in because I think people in a TL-12 society are likely to have
a John Varley-esque attitude toward their bodies. They'll change genders,
colors, or species at the drop of a hat. This may not be canonical, but I
think it creates interesting new role-playing opportunities.

>One word of warning...it is sometimes possible to delinineate your
>character _too_ much, right, Eris? ;-)

Whoooosh <sound of something going over my head>

Uh... whatever you say...

 + G M G +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <pawn@cam.org>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
"Nature abhors normality. It can't go too long without a mutant."
                        --Dr Blockhead

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:56:52 +1000
From: Scott & Isabell <becubed@connexus.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re:Generation Ship

At 13:28 10/06/97 -0500, Peter  H. Brenton wrote:
>Damn, what was the Heinlien book? Tunnel in the Sky?  Do I have the right
>author?
>
>Anyway the scenario was basically a ship based culture that was no longer
>aware they were on a ship.  They believed the ship was the world.  Areas
>above a certian "deck" were taboo (bridge and ships conrols) and the
>people had formed their tribes and sects.
>

The book is Orphans of the sky.

Scott

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:30:01 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Scenario: Generation-Ship

- -> >Hi folks,
- -> >yesterday during a perticularly boring lecture, i hit upon a new idea 
- -> >for a scenario: Travel onboard a GenerationVessel, a whole new take 
- -> >on the "limited space" campaigns. 
- -> 
- -> A few of us have played with "Metamorphosis Traveller" with credit due to
- -> Jim Ward and his "Metamorphosis Alpha"...  Not only limited space - limited
- -> awareness of its limitedness!
Never heard of MA, what is it?

Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 18:20:48 +0930 (CST)
From: David Sarkies <oedipus@student.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1415

This reminds me of a similar system in Cyberpunk. Having read through it I
like it and will use it for my games (especially how I like PC's to have a
background that I can expliot).

One thing you could have added would be a section on major injuries. You
could slot it in anywhere you like but I would suggest that I would go
something along the line of this:

1. suffer a disfiguring injury, Charisma drops by 1
2. seriously injured in a sporting match. Agility drops by 1
3. have a disasterous accident, lose a random limb or have it replaced
with a prosphetic limb

Any comments on this are most welcome (especially if you can enlarge on
it).



- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Apollo ordained my fate ... but the hand that struck my eyes were mine
alone." Oedipus Tyrannos
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:28:59 +0000
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au
Subject: Starports & Tech Levels

Just a musing that has resulted from reading Pocket Empires.

Some of you will remember that I argued that any planet within a 
single Jump (of whatever TL) from a high Tech planet would have 
access to the TL of said planet and that the local TL would be 
irrelevant, except to note what they could *produce* locally.

Well, consider this. There are a number of planets in First Survey 
that have A Class Starports with TLs of less than 9, the minimum 
required for Jump Drives/Building Starships and there are many more 
that have Class B Starports with TLs of less than 7 (the likely 
minimum for producing non-Starships).

Given that a B Starport costs 600 RUs, and an A Starport costs 2400 
RUs, and that an RU is (more or less) equal to the investment of 1 
trillion credits and that the Cr has always been assumed to be (from 
the 1970s AFAIR) around US$2, then we are looking at planets that 
obviously have had starports constructed there by foreigners, at 
higher than local TLs.

I did some quick calculations, and it seems that the worlds in 
question have GWPs of only about the same as the actual cost of the 
Starports.

So, consider this, we have worlds with less than the required TL for 
building non-starships with 600 trillion credit starports or with 
less than the required TL for building starships with 2400 trillion 
credit starports. And these have no effect whatsoever on the local 
effective TL?

Pull the other one, it plays jingle bells.

Since these ports are capable of building starships/spaceships and 
all that goes with them *and* since the investment is so huge that 
they are obviously incorporating all or almost all of the actual 
construction facilities in situ -- and probably construct most of the 
componets in situ as well, based on the infrastructure cost -- then 
how can you possibly justify the rest of the world not having more or 
less the same TL?

Now, sure, you *could* argue that these are "relic" facilities from 
the ROM or 1st imperium, but a quick check of The Spinward Marches 
sourcebook for CTrav reveals the same anomalies, so that's obviously 
*not* the case.

Surely the rule should be that if a world has a B Starport they 
*must* have at least TL7 commonly available, if only as imported 
rather than locally produced goods -- or, more likely, with locally 
produced components using key elements that have been imported from a 
TL7 world. For a B Starport, I see that there is no justification for 
a world having less than TL9 for the same sort of reason.

Remember, we are talking amounts of investment in infrastructure here 
that would make the US Deficit look like a "piddling little amount"!

Any thoughts?

Phil
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Have Designer, Will Travel
(Co-Designer of Space Opera, Designer Rigger Black Book)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 00:45:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1416

In mail you write:

>>   Sorry I can't answer your first question; I don't have a copy of PE
>>   on me right now.  Are they trade codes? (Ni=non-industrial,
>>   Ic=ice-capped, etc.)
>
> No, not trade codes. Here's an example from the book:
>
> ...........E654755-6  Ag         502 (PBG)   F4 V
> ...........B642422-7  Po Lopop   702         M7 V1
>
> It's the last part, the "F4 V" and "M7 V1" I don't get.

Those are the star or stars in the system. In the first system primary
is spectral class F4, size V. The second is spectral class M7 size VI.

Spectral classes from hottest to coolest are: OBAFGKM 
They are divided into 10 steps, so a G0 is next to a F9 (if I recall
correctly). So the F7 star is a lot hotter and brighter than the sun,
while the M7 is a red star and a lot cooler. The size classes range
from I (giant) through VI (dwarf?). 

Also, you'll see a few MD, GD, etc type entries. Those are supposed to
be white dwarfs, but really shouldn't be there at all. (Long story
involving real astronomy).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 00:30:36 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Scenario: Generation-Ship

In mail you write:

> On Tue, 10 Jun 1997, Volker A. Greimann wrote:
>
>> Hi folks,
>> yesterday during a perticularly boring lecture, i hit upon a new idea 
>> for a scenario: Travel onboard a GenerationVessel, a whole new take 
>> on the "limited space" campaigns. 
>
> Damn, what was the Heinlien book? Tunnel in the Sky?  Do I have the right
> author?

Right author, wrong book. What you want is "Orphans of the Sky". 

Other books on the Generation ship idea are:

"Starship" by Brian Aldiss
"Ballad of Beta-2" by Samuel Delany

Those are the only ones I can recall off the top of my head, but they
are all good, but with different "takes" on things. Pay attention to
the way Delany was dealing with language shifts back then.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:12:36 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Star ship design question

In mail you write:

>I have wanted to post this before... but, here goes... if "SO" much energy
>is required why cant it be stored in some sort of accumulator and
>generated slowly... This would require no excess fuel and would increase
>the area available for the rest of the ship for other aspects...

JTAS #1 "Annic Nova" an alien ship that has *solar powered* jump drives!

I rather like the idea, and then there's the listing of AM powered jump
drives on the really high tech charts. 

So put me down as going with the idea that the jump drive needs all the
*energy* the jump fuel provides. But like a rocket engine, it's not
*practical* to turn it from an engine into a power plant (or rather,
doing so winds up with a pretty much normal sized plant for that output
because of all the stuff you had to add to get the power out).

So in my book, you can jump as long as you can get enough energy to the
drive fast enough. Heck, it may even be possible to supply the energy
more slowly, but at the cost of needing more to make up for "losses"
(But who wants to be sitting there for an hour making the transition to
jump space? Talk about a sitting duck!)

ps. if it's possible to get jump drive before fusion power, you have
the "what are we doing with all this %^^#$ hydrogen?"problem all over
again. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 00:18:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Bubbles

In mail you write:

> A not particularly bright person stuck a dewar of LN2 in a walk in cooler
> one time at a place I used to work. Fortunately, the person who came in a
> few hours later, saw the thing and recognized it for what it was and
> bugged out...we had people who would work in the cooler for twenty, thirty
> minutes at a time. 
>
> (For the benefit of those who have never worked with it...LN2 is wonderful
> stuff for flash freezing biological materials for things like DNA or
> labile metabolite extraction. In a closed space LN2, however has this
> nasty habit of evaporating and displacing a large portion of the air.
> While not directly poisonous, breathing nothing but N2 will kill you PDQ)

Another nasty regarding LN2 that you may not be aware of. If it has a
substantial amount of surface exposed to air, it will convert from LN2
to LOX. This is because LOX has a higher boiling point so it condenses
out of the air as the LN2 evaporates. Shallow trays of LN2 should be
looked at for the slightest trace of "blue" coloring (indication that
they are now LOX).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:29:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: High Tech offenders

In mail you write:

> I still think that if technological progress above TL 9 was as easy as
> progress from 4-9 was on Earth, then the Traveller history won't work.
> And if some planets around Sylea had TL 14 in Year 0, then Sylea would have
> had TL 14 in Year 50 or 100.
>
> So, in the Traveller universe technological progress is NOT an easy thing, 
> at least not when you get above TL 8-9. (I would also reccomend that the 
> Terran TL 4 to 9 spurt be regarded as a freak occurrence, but that isn't 
> strictly necessary).

Frankly, tech progress in traveller is badly broken, but *has* to be
badly broken. Any *rational* level of tech progess reaches the
"Singularity" (ie the point where anything we can currently *imagine*
that is actually *possible* IS doable) thus rendering the universe
unusable beyond that point.

So we have two choices:

1. unrealisticly long times for tech advances
2. tech levels go "ballistic" before *any* of the large groups form.

After all, even considering our current "slow" progress with regards to
space travel. What are the odds that we won't hit max traveller TLs in
a couple of centuries or less? Now consider how far we'll get in that
much time. 

Interstellar travel is starting to look more like Anderson's recent
stuff than like Traveller. The travellers will be a "small" culture
that has budded off the main culture, and deliberately avoided
Vingean "transcendence". 

No interstellar empires. Just a bunch of sophonts who refuse to "grow
up" and choose to explore the universe instead.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 00:35:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Scenario: Generation-Ship

In mail you write:

>         I also think that one would find bits of the wonderful ;-) TV show
> "Battlestar Galactica" useful too. Although not very Traveller, there are
> plenty of scenes of people cooped up in the battlestar, as well as the
> ships it protects. Episodes have featured different aspects of a
> civilisation living onboard a starship; recreation, the hydroponics ship,
> command, medical, a shipboard fire, sensors ops, comms, etc... I'm sure you
> all know, just thought it might be helpful to mention it ;-)

Just be *very* careful. The program wasn't very SF. For example, that
shipboard fire could have been fought in two different ways. First, cut
off the air. Ok, that's a bit hard on anybody trapped in there. But the
SF answer is "turn off the gravity". No gravity, no convection
currents, no flames. The fire strangles on its own smoke (no grav,
smoke don't "rise"). 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 00:06:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jump troops and acceleration

In mail you write:

> Somewhere at the beginning of this thread was a question (from... well,
> someone. Sorry I can't remember the original poster) about the g-forces
> jtroops could withstand on reentry and how this would affect approach
> vectors for drop ships. I recently dug out an article from _The
> Foundation Point_ VolI, Issue 1, by Eric Lee where he lists data from
> _The Bioastronautics Book_ from Nasa that used various human and animal
> test data on g-stress as well as data gathered from high-speed accidents
> where g-force was extrapolated. The first table I will reproduce is for
> sustained acceleration (more than 30 seconds, but LESS THAN 15 minutes!)
>
> Tolerance for subjects
> Time            Accel couch<Gs>         G-Tank<Gs>
> (in min)                
> .5                      23                28
> 1                       17                22
> 2                       12                17
> 3                       8                 14
> 4                       7                 12
> 5                       6                 9
> 6                       5                 8
> 7                       4                 7
> 8                       4                 6
> 9+                      3                 6
>
> at longer periods extreme pain/fatigue resulted. At higher Gs pain,
> difficulty breathing, etc. were reported. Above 6 Gs breathing was
> difficult and NO arm/leg movement was possible above 7Gs

I like this. It shows that our fighters running at 3 g more than the
compensators *are* doable, and with simple accel couches at that. With
g-tanks it looks like you could get *6* g above the comps. Which makes
fighters a *definite* good idea!

As for jump capsules. note that the very first line has someone in a
accel couch changing velocity by 6.8 km/sec! That's enough to de-orbit
safely! Also, they'd be covering 100 km in the process. I think we
have a winner!

This does require a suit that acts like an accel couch, but that's not
out of the question.

> Accel time      Safe    Moderate injury         Severe/lethal injury
> (in seconds)     <Gs>        <Gs>                       <Gs>
> .005             <45         45-160                     >160
> .01              <45         45-100                     >100
> .02              <40         45-70                      >70
> .05              <40         40-45                      >45
> .1               <40         40-42                      >42
> .5               <18         18-26                      >26
> 1                <14         14-31                      >31
> 2                <13         13-23                      >23
> 5                <12         12-26                      >26

For our fighters, I see a lot of 40 g evasion manevers, as that seems
to be a limit. But who can afford a 40 g drive?

One thing I've heard is that the rate of onset of the acceleration (ie
third derivative forces) makes a *big* difference in survivability of
high accelerations. They designed ejection seat accel profiles around
that bit of info. It matters not just how high the accel is but how
fast it changes.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1420
***********************************
